Apple wins court battle against Samsung

by Chris Jager | Thursday 13 October 2011

Apple has successfully blocked the sale of the Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 in Australia for the time being.

It looks increasingly likely that one of the best Android tablets we've seen to date will never be released in this country. Apple has won a temporary court injunction against the Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1, effectively banning it from sale in Australia until the court case is resolved.
Samsung will not be able to market or sell the Galaxy Tab 10.1 in Australia until Federal Court Justice Annabelle Bennett makes a final decision in the ongoing patent infringement war.
A Samsung spokesperson said the company was "disappointed" with the result.
"Samsung will continue its legal proceeding against Apple‘s claim in order to ensure our innovative products remain available to consumers," Samsung stated.. "We will continue to legally assert our intellectual property rights against those who violate Samsung’s patents and free ride on our technology."
Timeline: Apple vs. Samsung – the story so far
In April, Apple hit Samsung firm with 16 claims which included charges of unjust enrichment, trademark infringement and ten patent disputes. It accused the rival electronics form of “slavishly” copying its designs for the iPhone and iPad.
Since then, Apple has issued multiple lawsuits against Samsung around the world, including the current case in Australia.
Samsung: Galaxy Tab 10.1 "dead"
Samsung had previously stated that a delayed launch would kill the tablet, and it would all but abandon plans to bring its Galaxy Tab 10.1 tablet to Australia should its launch be delayed further.
“If we miss the Christmas sales period, then the commercial value of the product will largely disappear," Samsung's legal representative Neil Young said at an earlier hearing. "The product would be commercially dead by March 2012 or shortly thereafter.”
The South Korean manufacturer had initially planned to launch the 10.1-inch tablet on August 11 but had agreed to three subsequent delays due to its ongoing patent battle with Apple.
Samsung released a thicker version of its tablet, dubbed the Galaxy Tab 10.1v, in Australia earlier this year. For the time being at least, it seems this may be the only way to get hold of the tablet locally.

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Comments: 57

affinity 13 October 2011	I hope that Samsung is able to sue Apple for a great sum of money over this. Comment made about the PC & Tech Authority article: Apple wins court battle against Samsung? Apple has successfully blocked the sale of the Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 in Australia for the time being. What do you think? Join the discussion.
photohounds 13 October 2011	And so dies competition at the feet of greed. The consumer suffers, riding a one trick pony.
Dinosaur 13 October 2011	Apple will try suing people for reading from ipad shaped pieces of paper next! There is only one shape for reading, how can you patent that! I'm just waiting for then to patent the iWheel and sue car makers. Apple have reached "Evil" status far more quickly than most and are closer to a religion if you listen to their fanbois. This just shows how broken the patent system is, reminiscent of that "Hitchhiker's guide to the Galaxy" scenario where someone went back in time to predate an invention and then sued the inventor! I don't really expect any fixing of these laws either, our politicians are totally owned by the big money guys (eg Abbott etc). I just want to get a decent bit of kit but they still haven't made the tablet PC I want (ie to do real work on).
jwaustincrowe 13 October 2011	Apple should be running scared. I had a free upgrade to a Galaxy S II and ditched my iPhony 4 immediately. Apple will only sue when they know there is a better product. The comparison between the Samsung and iPhone makes the Apple offering seem like a childs toy. Apple product ownership gives fanboys the feeling of being tech-savvy in the same way that a child attaching a cardboard clicker to their bike feels like a motorbike rider...
photohounds 13 October 2011	HEY! I used to like those cards, attached with a peg. You mean it wasn't a real motorbike? A childhood dream, shattered :)
pkortge 13 October 2011	What a "load of crap" guys. Samsung deliberately copied Apple's designs and Apple rightly sued. And it appear our courts think they have a case. See this website http://maypalo.com/2011/08/22/samsung-before-after-iphone-ipad-picture/ that shows Samsung's designs "before" and after iPhone/iPad. Talk about blatant copying !
affinity 13 October 2011	The iPhone 4S is a bit of a catch up on the Samsung Galaxy S II that's been out for 6 months. I cannot believe there is so much hype around Apple, it is totally undeserved market share, when is the "normal" consider going to understand how seriously bad Apple is for a fair and innovative market place?
affinity 13 October 2011	umm "normal" consumer...... ;-)
leebaldock 13 October 2011	@pkortge - that's bullshit. Every LCD monitor and plasma TV looks similar to me. Every fridge looks similar to me. There's such a thing as evolution of technology and in the case of touch screen smart phones the iPhone in 2007 was not the first. It was an evolution as well. Maybe Palm should be suing the Apple for copying the PalmTX. Apple are genuinely afraid the Galaxy Tab 10.1 will take market share from them. They have deep pockets and are pulling out all the stops. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_TX
affinity 13 October 2011	Yes, it's natural evolution. The parts required to make these devices has gotten smaller and Samsung, amongst other suppliers, makes plenty of these parts of which Apple was, until recently, quite happy to source from Samsung. Heck, some people can't tell b/w brands of cars these days because they have evolved similarly (shape, looks, aerodynamics).
silvervirtual 13 October 2011	Typical of Apple ... they see the writing on the wall with Samsung's continued innovation and instead of upping their own specs and making something for the world to share they again try to stifle progress for their own greedy benefit.
photohounds 13 October 2011	Samsung made tablets before Apple did (and even music players that PREDATE the ipod), according to what hardware could make possible at the time. Now ... WHY would a large memory maker make a music player that uses chips made by their good selves?? The possibilities have shifted as more work is put into screens, memory, cpus and software. Here's just ONE that flat phone was released before iphone - does it look familiar? wiredview.com/2007/01/18/lg-prada-ke850-touch-screen-phone-officially-launches/ Now replace the 1-in-5 button with an 'on' button and implement the rest in software, and voila - 'innovation'? I don't think so, you apparently do, but how well are our judges well advised - technically? It was apparently not nearly as good as the iphone - and it failed to storm the market. That's evolution for you, the also-rans fall by the wayside and others run to the head of the pack. It is what is happening to incumbents every day.. The idea that one company is responsible for all this innovation is a fan boy's revisionist version of history. Many companies contributed year after year. ONE made a spectacular success out of it before 2010, good on them. The 1.8Ghz dual core Sammy out next month with that SUPER screen, has some chomping at the bit. Not me, though I'm sure it'll push the boundaries ... Jeepers! (will PETA-HYPER-GAMMA-AMOLED be next the next incarnation? Will they soon need acronyms to condense all this hyperbole??? These devices are trending smaller, flatter and cheaper (using software instead of physical buttons saves a heap), regardless of what brand is stamped on the front. This is happening regardless of who makes money out of it and takes credit for 'innovation'. It will continue to happen regardless of who makes money out of it and takes credit.
amcmo 13 October 2011	OK Android Fan Boys, stop foaming a the mouth and consider the legal reality, not your dreamworld. In Australia the Apple case is about patented tech that Apple claims it infringes, not the look and feel of the European case. Apple has every right to sue for patent infringement, just as Samsung are suing Apple all over the world for supposed infringement, though in the Samsung case they seem to be on shaky ground as the patents in question are claimed to be FRAND patents, which if correct prevents Samsung from actually blocking Apple product. Just because your favourite product has been blocked does not make Apple the bad guy in this case. Leebaldock, you can say bullshit all you like, however if the judge, who supposedly knows a little more than you about patent law, believes it warrants an injunction, that is the LEGAL fact, regardless of what you would like to claim. I also add that Samsung admitted they were infringing and offered to sell a 'hobbled' version missing the easiest items to remove. There were other infringing matters that either they could not remove or did not want to for fear of being left with a poor performing tablet. Edited by amcmo: 13/10/2011 03:44:02 PM
Kritho 13 October 2011	Let's face it. All the the legalaties aside. Apple may have a case. The reality is that Apple likes technology to progress at their pace. By having other manufactures producing devices of better/newer hardware quality it forces Apple to speed up their process to stay in the game. This has been shown through their fans as well with the recent iPhone release. Apple fans all around the world were expecting an iPhone 5 with at least a 4 inch screen, dual CPU, 1GB RAM and an 8MP camera to come out (as that is the norm in smartphones today). What they got instead was an iPhone 4S with the same 3.5 inch screen and same 512MB RAM. The only 2 things they changed were the CPU and camera. By having this court case Apple are able to slow/delay the process of technology progression while also making a few more millions of dollars in sales.
amcmo 13 October 2011	Most of you are going on about phones here. The case is about tablets! Apple like any other manufacturer is protecting their market position. You can hate it as much as you like, reality is that if Samsung or any other mfr had managed a leap on Apple, and felt Apple were infringing their patents, they would be suing Apple and attempting to block Apple product. Just because your favourite horse is the one being blocked, you're on the Evil Apple path yet again, complaining about killing innovation. Point is, there is no innovation in the Samsung tablets. They are mroe or less an iPad with different OS and name. Samsung have ADMITTED breaching apple patents. Remember also, Samsung are trying to get Apple product blocked in a number of countries, but because it's Samsung that's not killing innovation?. Kritho, In reality Apple changed more than the CPU and the camera, they also changed the OS and software. The main things they didn't change that fan boys had been screaming for are the screen and case. I'm sure they will get over it in time... Edited by amcmo: 13/10/2011 05:05:13 PM
Kritho 13 October 2011	Oh that's right, they updated their OS to make it similar to Android. (Pull down notification bar and accessing missed calls/messages etc from the lock screen). Oh and BTW Apple were originally going after both Samsung Smartphones and Tablets.
boags 13 October 2011	As far as I am concerned, Apple can take a long walk off a short pier. My Galaxy 10.1 has just been ordered from overseas, cheaper option than the greedy bastards on eBay. Lets face it, the tab IS better than the iPad. So too is the Galaxy S ll a much better phone than the iPhone. Before you fannybois get on your high horses, there are 2 iphone 4 users in this house and one Galaxy s ll, the Galaxy out performs the inferior Crapple product easily.
amcmo 14 October 2011	Kritho, There was a notifications app for the iPhone before there was one for the Android, so by your reasoning Google copied someone... Apple hired the guy who wrote it, so again, they're not copying Android... Boags, Everyone in your house is entitled to their opinion. Reviews worldwide do not give any decisive superiority to either phone, with some coming down on the side of Galaxy, others iPhone. Latest benchmarks on the 2 phones gives the iPhone 4s a speed advantage over the Galaxy 2S, especially in video performance. There has yet to be an in depth review of the Galaxy 10.1 that I have seen that gives it any superiority to the iPad2. So it has a few more ports. One hell of a lot fewer apps.... Inferior Crapple product.... you don't have a technical fact to back that Android Fanboy statement. That's what I love about any of these Apple/Andoid 'biffs' the Android fanboys are the only group worldwide more rabid and one-eyed than Apple Fanboys...
boags 14 October 2011	Amco, No Android Fanboy here, mine's a Win 7 phone (yes I know). As for the Technical side of things. My son is one of the senior Apple Techs in Aus. However he does not voice an opinion other than to say he likes Apple products. I did read a review yesterday that gave it to the Galaxy 10.1, but only just. My preference for the Sammy over the Crapple is mostly personal, being a dislike of the way Apple ties you to them.
photohounds 14 October 2011	The "Innovative" Samsung 10.1 form factor would be better for reading - not just the magazines at the breakfast table - anything. It is also superior for HD movies. For me, apple's form factor is better for viewing the photos I make. I still prefer a degree of freedom than apple owning all my music - that's right, According tp their EULA - if Apple say "you can't have the music you THOUGHT was yours any more" for ANY reason - you're buggered. And people think OSS has limitations??? Dealing with the software establishment proves such an opinion to be a bit of a joke.
rubaiyat 14 October 2011	I'm mystified by the "Apple owns your music" argument. I have never bought any of the music on my iPod Touch from Apple. It is all music from my own CDs and PodCasts which Apple has generously supplied for free. Apple is a 4 star hotel, very nice and comfortable with a bar fridge in your room, but if you drink from it and eat the chips you pay on their terms, which btw are, unlike this analogy, very reasonable in most cases. You can also sit in your paid 4 star room, or the beautifully appointed totally free lobby, reading their free newspapers and magazines, whilst eating and drinking whatever you bought from the Seven Eleven around the corner. You enjoy Apple's 4 star surrounds, comfy furniture, and excellent service without charge until you use one of their clearly labelled and priced services and, pay or not pay, they keep the riffraff from the streets from bothering you. So what's your beef?
j876 14 October 2011	Ok it looks like Samsung will have to do the cut their losses and run and develop a new model. Australia is now stuck with less competition in the Tablet sector as the competition (Windows and Android Tablets) resemble the iPad 1 or bulkier rather than the thin and light iPad 2. Anything that is a thin, light, rectangle that is approximately 10" diagonal size with a capacitive touchscreen the Apple barrister army will be on it like a shot. The courts have given the green light to Apple to have the Australian market as their playground. Can't wait for Windows 8 tablets to come out which will hopefully give the iPad a real shake. Let’s see what the Apple lawyers are going to pull out with that one. They’ll think of something. Also I can't stand how the intellectual property law has become an anticompetitive tool to force other tablet manufacturers out of the market. Unfortunately the courts ruled in the big Apple's favour and Samsung will have to go back to the drawing board. In the end its the customers looking for something that is not Apple will loose. Hopefully, the next crop of Windows and Android tablets will have a better chance and put the IP law blowtorch on Apple for a change. At the moment, Apple have the tablet market virtually all to themselves. Produce a thin rectangle tablet and get ready to be pelted with Apple lawsuits. The Apple faithful (and those who claim that they aren’t but defend Apple to the death when they are in trouble) are correct. That is the law at the and they have every right to sue if they think their IP has been violated. The other people in Australia (yes there ARE people in Australia who don’t buy Apple, shock horror!) who want to use something else thin and light in the tablet market is going to suffer for it. The Apple faithful are sipping the champagne now. Enjoy it while it lasts. Edited by J876: 14/10/2011 06:07:16 PM
amcmo 14 October 2011	J876 So anyone who doesn't buy into the Android hype is an Apple fan? Samsung could have introduced a tablet to market at any time if they had to copied Apple's patents. They quickly agreed to changes to the Galaxy when they realized they were going to lose. Unfortunately they and perhaps Google rushed to market and Their product was going to be in strife without significant changes. It has nothing to do with making a rectangular tablet as most of the Android fans suggest, but a rectangular one with the icons just such and designed almost the same as the Apple. Then there are the Apple tech patents. I can't speak for everyone else, however my defense of Apple is based not on being a fan, but rather as a balance to the rabid Android fans who seem the think the world owes them an alternative to Apple or other and that these other companies have no right defending their IP. Similarly, I feel compelled to respond to those who claim that being OSS or pretending to be OSS as in the case if Android, somehow makes a product superior and more worthy. I'm just as happy to defend even M$ from similar crap.
photohounds 15 October 2011	Not into the Hype per se, but Android's a good alternative system. A little more vulnerability for stupid users, but a lot more freedom. Swings and roundabouts really. It depends on what is important to you. Being able to make it do just what I want with relatively standard interfaces is are high on my list, and it seems others..
trustnoone 15 October 2011	Lets all be real here, in essence all this means is I'll be buying my tablet online now instead of through a over priced store. Still I think thats bull!! stupid tyrant of a company, but in essence it makes no impact on me specifically, and lets be honest most people here are smart enough to be able to obtain a tablet no matter what a court order says
amcmo 15 October 2011	trustnoone, Why is it that a company protecting it's IP that they have spent years and $$ developing is somehow a tyrant. Apple, M$, Oracle do not owe it to Android mfrs to allow them to have a free ride on their research. Just because we'd all like more choice and greater competition in top of the line tablets (YES EVEN ME!!), doesn't mean we have a right to that product being available if it infringes patents. We're assuming for the purpose of argument that Apple and Oracle win their cases. M$ already have 'won' with Samsung, HTC etc licensing M$ tech. Nothing tyrannical about that. Of course Apple and Oracle MIGHT lose, and they will have egg on face if they do and large bills to pay. Just remember, if Oracle win and get their way, that could make any bans Apple have managed look minor compared to the 'Oracle effect'. As patent law stands they have every right, and as far as their shareholders are concerned, every responsibility to pursue these cases. Of course you can buy an Android tablet trustnoone, but why bother with on-line? Harvey's etc have ASUS, Toshiba, Acer tablets on sale at present for prices substantially below the iPad. They all have more ports and memory expandability. Those seem to be the two features most Android fans use to claim superiority of their favourite brand over the iPad, and no sign of any Apple attempt to ban them. iPad sales should be dead in the water and these tablets flying off the shelves! Photo, being able to make it do what you want. As Rubaiyat pointed out on another thread, you can get your music any number of ways on Apple product, OK you have to download (secure) apps from the Apple app store unless you jailbreak it. Seems you can do most of what you want even with an Apple logo:d . Slight tangent to this thread, but valid when considering the 'Apple tyrant'. One point that many seem to overlook, Apple (IMHO) more than anyone forced the Music labels to come out of the dark ages and allow music downloads, and even eventually helped force them to allow non-DRM music. Sometimes it's good to have a 'bully/tyrant/whatever' with market clout. OK, Apple didn't support music piracy, so I guess the freetards would hold that against them.
SoreGums 15 October 2011	I'm typing this on Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1 If you live in Australia and want one then buy one, pretty simple... Use shopbot or google etc and order it :) The only downside is we have to use a power adapter as these are imports. Hopefully the 7.7 being a different size makes it to Aus, I'll be getting one those as well as its screen is a bit more portable. Won't be getting the 5.5 due to the lack of Honeycomb.
amcmo 15 October 2011	SoreGums, How do you find it? Only issue that would concern me is warranty support. While problems are rare with major brand tech, they sometimes happen. How do you get on there? Most majors have international warranties, however if Samsung never bring it in, will they be able to provide any? How about apps written to support the format? I'm not certain on the 7 as the Australian injunction seems to be about tech, not size. Edited by amcmo: 15/10/2011 08:09:07 PM
photohounds 16 October 2011	Hah! you could send it back to the US and get it back before OZ techs have even looked at it. I've had a little direct comparison experience with just that. Not every brand of course. The yanks - love 'em or not, they do know a thing or two about service. My dad was an import and could ever really get his head around "... she'll be right mate ..."
rubaiyat 17 October 2011	photohounds wrote: Hah! you could send it back to the US and get it back before OZ techs have even looked at it. I've had a little direct comparison experience with just that. Not every brand of course. The yanks - love 'em or not, they do know a thing or two about service. Except if you are not a Yank. My experience of trying to get service from them then is you are an Untouchable. Even hard to get them to respond to eMails despite their "24 hr guarrantee". 3 strikes and they are out. I no longer buy anything from the States unless it is through someone like Amazon or the established web Software shops, where you are only a DL.
photohounds 17 October 2011	OK Ruby, Your mileage may vary as may everyone else's. (there must be something better than Kilometreage! Kimmage?) The real sellers stand by their products AFAIK. It pays to ask of course, and I deal with reputable people when I can.
j876 17 October 2011	"J876 So anyone who doesn't buy into the Android hype is an Apple fan?" quoting amcmo. Good question amcmo, I have a question for you. Did you actually read my post? I mentioned Windows 8 which is a Microsoft product to take on Apple's free for all. I am not just mentioning Android here. I didn’t mention open source either in my post. I have hardly ever seen anyone defend Microsoft’s IP on these forums. Just bag it when they stuff it up. When the Windows 8 preview came out nearly everyone was complaining that they don’t want to smudge their computer screen yet they happily smudge their smartphones and tablets with fingerprints. Look for something to pick on before it comes out proper. Apple stuff never receives that kind of harsh scrutiny and if it does, all hell breaks loose. I also mentioned that everyone has a right to defend their IP but I guess that was overlooked.
rubaiyat 18 October 2011	j876 wrote: "Apple stuff never receives that kind of harsh scrutiny and if it does, all hell breaks loose. No it gets called Crapple, iCrap, etc. The usual in depth critiques for the last 30 odd years of its existence. I spent a spare hour before returning home on Sunday, looking at the wares in a series of PC computer shops. I didn't realise you could still buy PCs with Centrinos and Pentiums in them. I was fascinated by the nonsensical description of the differences between AMD and Intel chips by the "technical experts" moonlighting as sales staff, and that none of the PC users present seemed to notice the supposedly "superior" graphics card and the "Superior" Blu-Ray (missing on most models anyway), they were obsessing over, were being shown on astoundingly awfully bad displays. It's the same cringing fascination that I have walking past the obviously popular Macdonalds, Subway or KFC or coffee in a plastic cup joint. Or overhearing 2 Americans at the airport earnestly discussing the 'superiority' of Coke over Pepsi, and Taco Bell over Burger King. Such days I wish I could return to my planet of origin, because I obviously took a wrong turn somewhere and ended up on this one.
photohounds 18 October 2011	Ruby, "... remember, when you're feeling very small and insecure, How amazingly unlikely is your birth, And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space, 'Cause there's bugger all down here on Earth." Didn't A.E say something about the universe and stupidity being infinite and not being sure about the universe :)
SoreGums 19 October 2011	amcmo, It's great, I had the SGS and now the SGSII and got the Tab 10.1 last month. I can only use android as I pay for Google Apps, its like if you are totally invested in your Holden Parts and yo ugo buy a Ford - just doesn't add up... As the Tab 10.1 - Of course I like it better than the iPad, I use the keyboard everytime I use the device and I hate the iOS keyboard, so being able to use split keyboard in landscape automatically puts the Tab in front... Both devices are 10 inches of glass with a browser at the the end of the day and both work great. I have a deep investment in Google so I'm going to go with an Android device and Samsung WIN. They win because the product is light & thin and the are totally fine with what people do over at xda - Those three things (size, weight, open software) are why I picked the samsung over any of the other devices. :)
SoreGums 19 October 2011	regarding apps - seriously are you only buying the device for apps? then buy the device that has the apps you want/need.... doesn't matter about anything else then :)
amcmo 19 October 2011	Sounds as though they are both so close that it comes down to personal preference and the availability of any apps you may want. I'm not aware of the keyboard issue you mention. Must look that up. Makes me think that if Samsung had been a little more careful to not make it looks so much like an iPad, right down to the packaging etc, we might have them openly on the market, which would not be a bad thing at all.
SoreGums 19 October 2011	pretty much - you are really picking Android or iOS - if you want Android then you are picking features between manufacturers and if they let you do whatever you want or not when it comes to software. there is no issue with the keyboard, either you like the iOS keyboard or you don't, I don't :) I don't like swype or standard android keyboard in landscape either so installed the swiftkey one which gives great predictability and is split w/ numpad in the middle. If Apple put Android on the iPad2 then I'd be able to choose an Apple product. Until then there will always be a market gap for a device that has all the features an iPad has that runs Android, Samsung have successfully filled this gap - Tab and iPad aren't the same, that's like saying all cars are the same - My Mazda3 that has four wheels and an engine does not move like a McLaren F1 which also has four wheels and an engine ;) Android and iOS are not the same...
photohounds 20 October 2011	That look and feel issue is a phurphy, and a LOT of what thwe current BS cases are based on to the extent where Apple have TWICE falsified the proprotins of sammy devices.. Rectangular glass face, few buttons, ICONS (a XEROX invention?) thin case (thinner if it is a galaxy) and usually black or dark grey. BIG DEAL it is called minimalist design an appple are good at it, no argument. People LIKE rectangular pictures (iwtness most paintinfgs, tv sets cinemas, tablets, phones) Minimalist design in electronic devices (especially that ubiquitous rectangular shape) was around LONG before jobs and woz tinkered in their garage and added their bit to computing. Many others added worthwhile stuff, without all the hoo-ha that the big players receive. Many innovative small companies were squashed along the way to where we stand. Pounds to peanuts "ice cream sandwich" will get around those niggly, relatively minor patent claims. It seems to have some new innnovative features, and is rightn around the corner, too. Superior as apple may have been with small mobile electronics LAST decade, they are now playing catch-up. They (among MANY others along that time line) gave mobile electronics a push. It is now the turn of the vision of others to advance the state of the art. Gums ... Apparently it is too hard to hack ipads - not enough RAM for real multitasking. http://www.ipadforums.net/ipad-hacking/10201-installing-android-ipad.html .
photohounds 20 October 2011	Darn! I'll fix my infuriating typos later :)
amcmo 20 October 2011	Photo, we've been over the 'adjusted size' thing so many times it's stale. They were perfectly within rights to do so to focus the court on the rip-off aspect, and as for the other rubbish thrown up - Xerox, movies, TV shows, whatever, the courts threw them aside as phurphies, to use your term. I like the 'niggly relatively minor patent claims', if they were so minor, why didn't Samsung (and Google?) get off their arses and do it right first time instead of a mad rush to market? If they had, we might all be enjoying more choice, now instead of waiting until next year.
ory_zm 20 October 2011	As much as I would love to have the Tab allowed in Australia (if only for the sake of breaking the iPad mainstream-ness and public perception), it's hard to argue with the facts. The facts are that Samsung are losing, not only here but everywhere else as well. We can bitch about Apple as much as we want, but as a business they are entitled to maximise their profits within the limits of the law. And looks like the law is on their side. This is not about right or wrong, but is a legal issues. According to current IP laws, Samsung are infringing, and the market is paying the price.
photohounds 25 October 2011	"The facts" actually are that Samsung are apparently less like to lose in the US, than the fanboys would like, or would have us believing. Much of the 'claim' is pure BS, a few lines of code needed to change [done], as for icons looking like other icons - that's what makes them recognisable - making that a completely idiotic claim. FFS!!!! http://www.devblogging.com/2011/10/24/samsung-may-beat-apples-us-design-patents-expert-warns-computerworld/ The judge's comments politely recognise the "FACT" that much of the hoo-ha is pure BS. People often will go against those who misuse their power. This will not serve apple well in the long run.
amcmo 26 October 2011	Photo, you drop back again to claims of pure BS. The judge has stated her initial thinking on some aspects,and in fact the article you reference suggests that Apple's lawyers failed sufficiently to bring up points that would have support their claims. You're again ascribing intent on the part of the judge that you have no way of knowing. She also made points that lean towards Apple. How it all ends up neither you nor I can guess. Even the so-called IP lawyers have been proven wrong so many times that no weight can be given to them. I would suggest that far from pure BS as you would like to believe, the claims are the law as Apple and their advisors see it, and Samsung have an opposing view (Though Samsung have admitted some issues and designed them out). You in other posts claim them to be minor, however they existed and Samsung knew they did, preferring to rush to market then clean up that 'minor' mess after the fact. Apple are, despite all you say, entitled to defend their IP AS THEY SEE IT. The courts will decide one way or the other.
kristinebryson 28 October 2011	I have sent back twice for repairs and they still will not refund me my money I am held hostage with a product that does not work. I am soooooooooo mad.
rubaiyat 28 October 2011	There, there. Have a handkerchief and a nice cup of of tea. Men can be such beasts! Now what have they done to you this time? ...and who the F......k are we talking about?
jax00aus 28 October 2011	While you can argue that the law is the law, at some point this patent system is going to fail. Too many patents are being granted seemingly without any thought to the repercussions. All tablets on the market today share similarities - no keyboard or mouse, are rectangular in shape, have an on/off switch and/or volume controls and at least some kind of port to enable recharging. Having been a software developer for almost 20 years, I really can't agree with the patenting of all software / graphical gimmicks. If this were allowed we'd hardly be able to write or design anything without infringing on someone else's patent; a button? a grid? a scrolling window? Drag an icon to a trashcan? They'd all be off limits. Even slide out windows or gadget panels are there to maximise functionality given a lack of screen space. Nobody should own patents on these either as they're logical solutions to space problems. Then there's gestures - a concept that every tablet requires in order to operate given there's no keyboard or mouse; why should someone be able to patent those? You shouldn't. These all belong to the natural evolution of the portable, personal computing device - just as speech recognition is. To that end, it is almost inevitable that devices will also become thinner as components become smaller. I've spent enough time wandering the stores looking at tablets to know that I didn't want an iPad. Apple can huff and puff all they like about having had the best looking and thinnest tablet, and how the Galaxy Tab has stopped me buying an iPad, but I'm the consumer and I don't want their products - I want whichever product I feel suits my needs the best. In the end I imported a Galaxy Tab because I can't buy one in Australia. I was tempted by the Asus tablet, but didn't like the bronze case, the Toshiba tablet is just plain ugly, while the Acer Iconia was alright but wasn't quite right for me. The Tab 7" was a brick and I was tempted by the Motorola Xoom for a brief period, and the Blackberry... well. Several of these devices were running older versions of the Android OS too. Ultimately I'm a technical guy, and so I don't ever, ever want to use a product like iTunes to manage my software, download legal movies or MP3s on my device - I don't mind the idea of loading applications directly from an on-device App-Store though. Using iTunes on my PC for my old iPhone3 has to rate as one of the most frustrating software experiences I've ever had and without a doubt I could have written better.
rubaiyat 29 October 2011	Round and round and round we go. The court cases are not being won on square devices with screens and icons. No matter how many times all those prescient Anti-Apple posters insist that it is. The very same Anti-Apple posters, who reflexively find fault with everything Apple does, want the right to steal the very thing that they disparage so much. Irony or sense of hypocrisy not being their strong point. This is really the case of those who don't have any ideas or design abilities wanting an open license to simply appropriate what they want from those who do. Apple has created virtually all the stuff that everyone else wants. So everyone who called Apple stupid and useless or worse now wants it for free. No effort of their own. No expense spared in simply copying. No acknowledgement of the original creator other than the flattery of imitation. The Prisoner of Second Avenue: Quote: Edna: We've been robbed. Mel: What do you mean, robbed? Edna: Robbed. Robbed. What does rob mean? They come in, they take things out. They used to be yours, now they're theirs. This isn't just some hoon in a hoodie. No, now there is the Right to Take 'Philosophy', expressed in the worldwide move to piracy. It is "principled'" kleptomania, an expression of individual freedom. Not really stealing, because "ideas belong to everyone". Everyone who doesn't have any. The lessons learnt when patents and copyright were introduced are all being forgotten. The vast majority of creative people already live a life of poverty. The degree of organised theft today ensures that even with legal protection, like the rioters in London, the Unilateral Open Sourcers will simply swarm somewhere else to take everything they can get their hands on, just for that momentary thrill of consuming, before destroying what someone else worked hard at creating. The only real recourse for anyone who creates today is to stop planting their seeds, and instead join the locusts razing the crops. End result: A lot of hungry locusts and no crops. Edited by rubaiyat: 29/10/2011 01:38:31 AM
jax00aus 29 October 2011	A well articulated post. Such a shame that it really doesn't say anything.
photohounds 30 October 2011	I'll say something ... Created? NO doubt Apple have done some good things ... Like MS (surely they did something good?). IBM - inventing RAM and hard drives sorta qualifies, doesn't it? ... Phones: At least TWO products provided the appearance and operation and appearance model for the iphone. The Samsung 700 and the LG Prada. Both out almost a YEAR before the copIphone. Apple improved the design, sure, and put a few niceties in. In some people's minds that qualifies as "invention". Software ... Lessee ... swipe to unlock - just patented in the zany US, already thrown out by the Dutch court. Invention? What a joke, much of their good software is based on the linux-like, unix-imitating BSD. And that's GOOD, but NOT an invention, it is a very nice adaptation. Ipods? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1053152/Apple-admit-Briton-DID-invent-iPod-hes-getting-money.html At the time Apple (2008) - who STOLE his ipod idea, were selling a hundred of the things A SECOND and gave the true inventor nothing (unless you counted a pitiful consultancy for which he had to WORK and TESTIFY for the THIEF!!!. Giving him a hundred million? Apple wouldn't even FEEL it - yet the greedy so and co's gave him nada, zip, zilch, sweet FA. Yes there's much to admire, but when you MAKE YOURSELF a target this wide (like that other IT behemoth, with detestable "but legal - hahaha" behaviour, why should we accept corrupt, greedy, dishonest practices and MAKE EXCUSES for them??? Sorry ... I can't stand by watching the Apple-drool pass by like so much flotsam and hold my trap. It doesn't make me a hater - except of despicable business practices.
rubaiyat 30 October 2011	Whilst you have been distracted elsewhere: http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2011/10/microsoft-collects-license-fees-on-50-of-android-devices-tells-google-to-wake-up.ars?comments=1&p=22218895#comment-22218895 That's Apple for you. Just a 'few' niceties. You'd hardly notice them.
photohounds 30 October 2011	Boll... Evil MS is profiting(more than their so far crapware mobile OS) from Android. Apple get BS temp injunctions to stop competitors selling good product. BIG difference between profiting form the competition to fearing them so much that you have to (temporarily) stop them selling ANY ... This behaviour will influence a whole new generation of people who don't like to be dictated to. It will NOT serve the Big A well - at least IMO.
photohounds 30 October 2011	A quote from your link .... illustrates the mood well. Bracketed text mine ... 'The moment they show them (their supposed patents) they will all get invalidated as literally impossible to claim any patent without existing ones or prior art. Especially when you are Microsoft, a classic 'steal-cheat-copy' operation that barely ever invented anything patent-worthy (though still far ahead of Apple.) I may not agree with the MS v Apple sentiment, but "steal-cheat-copy" certianly IS NOT limited to Google - not by a light year.
rubaiyat 31 October 2011	"though still far ahead of Apple.' That is completely the wrong way around. Apple has been quite fastidious, in most cases, licensing or paying for what it has used. It does not patent what others created, it patents what it has created itself and all the lies that it is doing otherwise don't stick. Unless you are incredibly stupid or so blindly prejudiced that nothing will ever convince you otherwise. In the case sited the patents were lost, the inventor acknowledges that, and does not seem to feel he has been dealt with unfairly by Apple.
photohounds 5 November 2011	His opinion not necessarily mine. Still, the two products they are most recently famous for were copied/stolen from others. To Wit: the ipod and their phone ... M$ stole the GUI from the same place and probably pay no (as opposed to NEXT TO NE) royalties for something they doe NOT invent. It's why Apple lost. I liked the view about MS investing $150 million out of altruism (or as some penalty) some wag expressed on another thread. Made my day - for humour. If it was a 'penalty', why did Apple have to buy the shares back?? "In August 1997, the Company and Microsoft Corporation (Microsoft) entered into patent cross license and technology agreements. In addition, Microsoft purchased 150,000 shares of Apple Series A nonvoting convertible preferred stock ("preferred stock") for $150 million. These shares were convertible by Microsoft after August 5, 2000, into shares of the Company's common stock at a conversion price of $8.25 per share. During 2000, 74,250 shares of preferred stock were converted to 9 million shares of the Company's common stock. During 2001, the remaining 75,750 preferred shares were converted into 9.2 million shares of the Company's common stock."
rubaiyat 6 November 2011	If we are talking about the standard Menus, Windows, Mouse GUI. Apple licensed the Xerox version in exchange for considerable amount of Apple stock and went on to develop it into the much more advanced Macintosh. Microsoft developed Windows without licensing it from Xerox and with the inside knowledge of the Macintosh given to them by Apple. Still took them 13 years to come up with W95, their first even partially usable version. There had been a legal agreement with Apple at some stage but unusually for Apple it was poorly phrased and it gave Microsoft an easy out. Apple I think may be being extra tough now because that nearly cost them the company and they don't want a repeat. The judges this time seem to agree that Apple has tied up their patents correctly this time. That is not one judge in one jurisprudence, but multiple judges in multiple locations. The posters here and elsewhere with their "legal" expertise are not sitting in the court going through the actual evidence and are just blowing off copious amounts of wishful hot air. Wishful, because they want what Apple has developed but want it without paying for it. I was not aware of the conversion of the preferred Apple stock to ordinary voting stock. That does sound like a payout. What are your references?
amcmo 7 November 2011	My understanding of the conversion option is that, as is common in such cases there is an option to convert at a pre-agreed price. There are benefits to owning either type which the owner has to weigh based on their investment strategy. Depending on how Apple shares performed tree could be a profit or loss involved for M$

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